Playing the Dane
Gus Hansen
On the eve of the UK leg of the World Series of Backgammon in London’s Casino at the Empire, gambling.com cordoned off Gus Hansen.
For many an aspiring treader of the boards, landing the role of the Dane represents the highest possible honour that theatre can bestow and for some, marks the pinnacle of their careers. However, what Hamlet also provides is a challenge of such magnitude that only the very finest of thespians will be able to truly conquer. The trouble with Hamlet is that it is very much down to the actor’s perception of what he is, what he represents and where his true conflict lies. If you get that perception wrong, sometimes by fractions, then the role has defeated you. It has identified your weaknesses and publicly exploited them.
Poker’s ‘Great Dane’ is cut from the same cloth, and will do to poker players what Hamlet will do to legions of unassuming young theatre pretenders. Gus Hansen is one of poker’s most admired and respected characters and has the big tournament wins to back that up. However, Hansen is also regarded as one the best dual game players on the tournament circuit, finding time every now and again to swap the poker felt for the angular stalactites of the backgammon board. The game itself is the oldest game known to man, but has suffered in strange way from the emergence of a little sprog called poker. However, with people like Gus Hansen on board, the World Series of Backgammon (WSOB) is hoping to trigger something of a renaissance.
So, first of all how are you?
Err, a little bit tired, you know, but apart from that pretty good.
The last time you were here (Empire Casino) you just missed out on the final table of the World Series of Poker Europe. How did you feel because you obviously played very well to get that far? Any regrets?
Any regrets? Well, getting knocked out in tenth wasn’t part of my plan with ten players left [laughs]. I had more experience than the other nine players put together, so that was a bit of a shocker to me. It hadn’t really entered my mind, but that’s what happens, I don’t have regrets there. I made a couple of minor mistakes earlier on and I kind of wish I would have played differently. But hey, apart from that, you’ve got to show the best hand at the river sometimes. That’s alright.
Let’s look ahead to the tournament here—the UK Classic. Obviously backgammon is a love of yours, so how does your preparation for a backgammon tournament differ from poker?
Well I think the difference for me is that I’ve played a lot of poker and a lot of backgammon, so in that sense I feel pretty good playing both games. Of course there are going to be obstacles, decisions to make and I’ll tackle them along the way.
The big difference I would say is stamina. In a poker tournament you know before you do anything that you have to sit there for ten hours, another ten hours the next day, another ten the next day; whereas in a backgammon tournament it’s usually 13 point matches, 15 point matches, maybe 17 point matches. On average the matches last around two hours. Then you have a break before your next match, or there could be a dinner break. Sometimes you won’t play again until the next day depending on how big the draw is, so basically you’re usually never playing more than two or at maximum three matches in one day. Unless, however, you’re against a slow opponent who takes a long time, but fortunately for this tournament we have a clock to stop extremely slow play. Every match is going to be played at a certain speed so you’re never going to be more than six hours at the table. To do well in a poker tournament I would probably have to be a little more rested than for a backgammon tournament because I know, “Hey, if I can focus for a couple of hours I’ll be ok”, whereas if I lose my grip in a poker tournament I could lose all my chips. So there’s definitely a bit of stamina involved.
I’m very familiar with both games, I know both games, I feel comfortable sitting at the backgammon board or the poker table. In that sense preparing is getting some good sleep.
I haven’t played too much backgammon ahead of this tournament, but in Denmark we have some of the strongest backgammon players in the world, and all of them are good friends of mine. So we’ve been playing a little backgammon throughout the week, played a couple of positions, played a couple of small matches…
Getting match fit?
Yeah, just getting back into the groove. I remember the first day we played I was a little out of sync. I didn’t feel as comfortable as I usually do. But that went away as I played a little bit, so I am feeling pretty good, and I am ready for both playing and commentating.
What is it about Scandinavia that seems to breed good poker players and good backgammon players?
That’s a good question. Basically as far as I see it, backgammon has been an organised game in Denmark for a long time. There’s the Danish Backgammon Federation, people play in cafes, people have team tournaments—there’s just a lot of backgammon going on at random cafes and so on. Also in places where a lot of young people and students go to college, university, high school, whatever and I just think it’s the young natured people that want to excel. People want to study, people want to get better, people want to analyse—that kind of behaviour just breeds good players who have a competitive nature.
I mean, why does Sweden have a lot of good tennis players? They have Mats Wilander, Stefan Edberg; they had a lot of names in the top ten plus the number one in the world. Denmark has never had any. Norway has never had any. Why is that?
There’s a tradition in Sweden. So you could say there’s a backgammon tradition in Scandinavia, particularly in Denmark, together with a burgeoning poker tradition. So it’s like you’re a young kid, boy or girl, it doesn’t matter, but hey, there’s this guy, he’s really good at this game and I am trying to learn. It’s a little more exciting because there’s a little more tradition for it. I think that breeds enthusiasm, people are like, ‘Eh, I could be like that guy or that girl’. I think a little bit of tradition and the young people that are in cafes analysing and studying breeds young players.
So backgammon is also a game that’s picked up at an early age, I imagine.
Yeah, it’s a very common game in Denmark. People play here, there, in the streets. A lot of people just know the game, so… It obviously helps if you’ve played it for a long time.
OK, backgammon players, poker players—there are a lot of dual game players like Sandor Lylloff (who recently won an EPT Barcelona). In the press conference afterwards he said “Yeah, it’s great I’ve won all this money, but I am more interested in the backgammon tournament in France next week.” What attributes makes a good poker player and a good backgammon player? Where are the crossovers?
Well the crossover is in the games themselves, you need the experience, you need some time at the backgammon board, you need some time at the poker table—you can’t just read a book. You really have to be present because there’s an infinite amount of situations you get into, which you’re never going to cover by reading about it. Just by being present at the table and playing a lot, means that you see more situations. You’re not going to cover them all but just the fact you’ve seen something similar just makes you get a better feel for the situations. So you need experience.
There’s math in both games, I would definitely say more so in backgammon, but you have to be able to figure out the pot odds in poker. In backgammon you count the shots, what are the ups and downs. There is a mathematical aspect to both games.
You do have to spend time analysing. It’s not enough to just play the game. It’s good to just think “can I correct my mistakes? Did I really make a good play here? I should definitely keep that in mind/ that seemed to be a good play/I should probably repeat that some other time if I am at the poker table/that seems to be the right idea in the backgammon position.” So there are many things that are very similar. I would say that backgammon is a little more of a theoretical game whereas poker is a little more psychological. You can make a bluff double in backgammon but the bluff in poker is more psychological. You’re trying to feel out what your opponent is trying to do. You should definitely be aware of what kind of opponent you’re playing in backgammon as well but more so, you’re trying to make the correct play. In poker it’s a little more situational, depending on your opponent, depending on what mood your opponent is in, on how he perceives you. There’s definitely more psychological aspects in poker and a little more mathematical, theoretical and analytical in backgammon.
Obviously both games play on your concentration levels, but what do you find the most enjoyable parts? Which game do you enjoy the most?
I wouldn’t say either/or, neither/nor. I started out with my grassroots in backgammon. I played a lot of backgammon, ventured into poker, just because it seemed that poker was a bigger community. The tournaments were a little bit bigger, and I also like to vary. If you’ve played backgammon on and on and on for two months straight maybe you want to take a break, but you still like the gambling aspect, so “hey, let’s play a little poker.” It works the other way around as well, so basically I think it’s great that we create some attention around backgammon so there will be more and more people, and more opportunity to pick and choose a little bit. “Hey, maybe play a backgammon tournament, maybe play a poker tournament. They’re both great games.” It’s nice to have something to vary with.
The public awareness and TV coverage that this tournament will create should give the game the kind of exposure it needs to flourish as well as giving you guys the chance to play more backgammon. Well, like I said, definitely, Media is big nowadays—it’s always been big. It creates the attention and if we can catch some of the excitement they caught in poker, if we can catch that in backgammon as well… Hopefully we’ll be in there as well giving some good commentary, getting more people into the game, then we can create a better scene for backgammon, with bigger tournaments. As we all know, money creates attention and the bigger the money the more exciting the final roll will be.
What players are you looking at going into the tournament?
[Smiles] I haven’t looked at the line-up yet. I have been in the backgammon world a long time, I’m aware of who’s who, even thought I might be a little rusty I think I might be capable of competing. Obviously there are the Danes, Sandor Lylloff and Mads Andersen, former World Champion—also an EPT winner, so another crossover there. There are a lot of strong players, and I am sure there’s going to be some young players I haven’t encountered that are going to be very strong, very solid. I’m looking forward to seeing who’s who nowadays since I’ve been a little absent from the backgammon scene. It’s going to be a fun week!
Well good luck, all the best and thanks for talking to us.
Thanks!
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